Comments on: Remember Remember the 5th of November http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/ Fitness, Health, Diet, Crossfit, Weightlifting, Musings and fun. Please comment on what you read. Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:53:38 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: mike http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-3630 mike Mon, 24 May 2010 10:36:55 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-3630 this is all i got to say about nursery rhymes http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp this is all i got to say about nursery rhymes http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/rosie.asp

]]> By: Colin McNulty http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-2954 Colin McNulty Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:46:35 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-2954 Hi Doc and thanks for the great comment. I'm glad someone realised I wasn't asking about censorship, but as you said, about the age of innocence. I think time heals the wounds of terrorism, especially as the cause he was fighting for is no longer relevant. I wonder if in 400 years, Osama Bin Laden say, will be viewed in a different light? Who can say. Hi Doc and thanks for the great comment. I’m glad someone realised I wasn’t asking about censorship, but as you said, about the age of innocence.

I think time heals the wounds of terrorism, especially as the cause he was fighting for is no longer relevant. I wonder if in 400 years, Osama Bin Laden say, will be viewed in a different light? Who can say.

]]> By: Dr. Mercury http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-2953 Dr. Mercury Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:21:02 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-2953 First off, thanks for posting the entire poem. I didn't even KNOW there was more to it than the first few lines until I saw some reference to it on some site. It took another four links to find it here. (Actually, as these things go, I was seriously disappointed in the insipid, simplistic second verse. Are we sure both were written by the same person?) As to your question, the commenters who posted about "censorship" completely missed the point. This isn't a question of "censoring" something, it's a question of at what age is it proper to introduce the concepts of murder and assassination to a child? Or, put another way, at what age do you destroy a child's innocence? I'd break it down two ways: - Yes, 7 years old is too young to learn that if you don't agree with someone, the best avenue is to burn off his head. And, even if one doesn't believe in the Catholic god, advocating that you kill the POPE -- of all people -- is certainly over the edge. - With that said, however, there's certainly a way you could relate the poem to a child and not warp them psycholgically. It could be told with a lot of vocal and body expression, like telling a ghost story to kids. "...burn him like a blazing star -- ooooh!", said with a twinkle in your eye. The interesting thing, as one of the commenters pointed out, is that the "no reason...it should ever be forgot" line has turned around over the years, as evidenced by the movie. At least Fawkes TRIED to do something about a repressive government -- as referred to the droning sheep who sit by and just take it. Here's a great line from Fawkes' Wikipedia entry: "However, his reputation has since undergone a rehabilitation, and today he is often toasted as, 'The last man to enter Parliament with honourable intentions.'" If we had a Guy Fawkes here in America, we'd be saying the same thing about Congress. Thanks again for the interesting post, Doc First off, thanks for posting the entire poem. I didn’t even KNOW there was more to it than the first few lines until I saw some reference to it on some site. It took another four links to find it here. (Actually, as these things go, I was seriously disappointed in the insipid, simplistic second verse. Are we sure both were written by the same person?)

As to your question, the commenters who posted about “censorship” completely missed the point. This isn’t a question of “censoring” something, it’s a question of at what age is it proper to introduce the concepts of murder and assassination to a child? Or, put another way, at what age do you destroy a child’s innocence?

I’d break it down two ways:

- Yes, 7 years old is too young to learn that if you don’t agree with someone, the best avenue is to burn off his head. And, even if one doesn’t believe in the Catholic god, advocating that you kill the POPE — of all people — is certainly over the edge.

- With that said, however, there’s certainly a way you could relate the poem to a child and not warp them psycholgically. It could be told with a lot of vocal and body expression, like telling a ghost story to kids. “…burn him like a blazing star — ooooh!”, said with a twinkle in your eye.

The interesting thing, as one of the commenters pointed out, is that the “no reason…it should ever be forgot” line has turned around over the years, as evidenced by the movie. At least Fawkes TRIED to do something about a repressive government — as referred to the droning sheep who sit by and just take it.

Here’s a great line from Fawkes’ Wikipedia entry:

“However, his reputation has since undergone a rehabilitation, and today he is often toasted as, ‘The last man to enter Parliament with honourable intentions.’”

If we had a Guy Fawkes here in America, we’d be saying the same thing about Congress.

Thanks again for the interesting post,
Doc

]]> By: Colin McNulty http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-2799 Colin McNulty Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:24:43 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-2799 I happen to agree. However (and I should have made this clearer in my original post) that my daughter at the time was just 7. Year 9 is what, 14 years old? I agree they are a suitable audience, but 7? I'm not so sure. But then where is the line drawn? I happen to agree. However (and I should have made this clearer in my original post) that my daughter at the time was just 7. Year 9 is what, 14 years old? I agree they are a suitable audience, but 7? I’m not so sure. But then where is the line drawn?

]]> By: rkk http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-2798 rkk Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:48:49 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-2798 I am contemplating using this for a year 9 assembly at school. (I am a teacher). I see no reason why students should not be taught the story, and the poem for this from an educational point of view.. I will be teaching the entire poem- Im not creating a racial debate here or influencing students to go and kill the pope! its a piece of history. There is no need to hide it.. I am contemplating using this for a year 9 assembly at school. (I am a teacher).

I see no reason why students should not be taught the story, and the poem for this from an educational point of view..

I will be teaching the entire poem- Im not creating a racial debate here or influencing students to go and kill the pope! its a piece of history. There is no need to hide it..

]]> By: me http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-2721 me Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:59:53 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-2721 I would like to say a few words regarding this matter. One, i am a firm believer in the stopping of Censorship in modern society. Secondly, i would like to say that i have written many papers, essays, and term papers on Guy Fawkes and how he influenced modern society. I am not claiming to be an expert on the matter, but from what i have read, it is alright for a child to learn this saying. I must also agree with Orwell's novel 1984. "WE" as a society have been corrupting our ways, to a point beyond repair. We are hiding truths from people who it should not be hidden from. those people, are our society... bound to the life of conformity. The movie V for Vendetta, can not just be taken at a face value rate... after watching it several times, one can see that it is not about righteous revolution, but it is about the divine right to actually "SEE" what the world is, not what the media portrays it as. I will always remember the 5th of November, mainly because on this day, history was made... it showed that abiding by conformist ways only ruins our existence as human beings. The smartest animal is what we are called, but we are ignorant, arrogant creatures, no better than the smartest bird. We even cage that bird, because it has the gift of flight, don't you see how far we have drifted from the ideas of a Utopia? from the ideas of a "safe life" I would like to say a few words regarding this matter.
One, i am a firm believer in the stopping of Censorship in modern society.
Secondly, i would like to say that i have written many papers, essays, and term papers on Guy Fawkes and how he influenced modern society.
I am not claiming to be an expert on the matter, but from what i have read, it is alright for a child to learn this saying. I must also agree with Orwell’s novel 1984. “WE” as a society have been corrupting our ways, to a point beyond repair. We are hiding truths from people who it should not be hidden from. those people, are our society… bound to the life of conformity.

The movie V for Vendetta, can not just be taken at a face value rate… after watching it several times, one can see that it is not about righteous revolution, but it is about the divine right to actually “SEE” what the world is, not what the media portrays it as. I will always remember the 5th of November, mainly because on this day, history was made… it showed that abiding by conformist ways only ruins our existence as human beings.

The smartest animal is what we are called, but we are ignorant, arrogant creatures, no better than the smartest bird. We even cage that bird, because it has the gift of flight, don’t you see how far we have drifted from the ideas of a Utopia? from the ideas of a “safe life”

]]> By: _someone_ http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-1264 _someone_ Wed, 05 Nov 2008 18:28:24 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-1264 the first section is very good but the second section is very unsuitable, as if a song like that was sang about a muslim leader u would be considered rasist. and to the person who said "the truth" the second verse is nothing to do with what happened. the first section is very good but the second section is very unsuitable, as if a song like that was sang about a muslim leader u would be considered rasist.

and to the person who said “the truth” the second verse is nothing to do with what happened.

]]> By: Guy Fawkes Fireworks Night is Coming http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-1205 Guy Fawkes Fireworks Night is Coming Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:45:43 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-1205 [...] love this time of year, well the closet pyromaniac in me does. I wrote about the Guy Fawkes night poem: Remember, Remember, the 5th of November last year, which gives some interesting insights into the political back drop of this festival. [...] [...] love this time of year, well the closet pyromaniac in me does. I wrote about the Guy Fawkes night poem: Remember, Remember, the 5th of November last year, which gives some interesting insights into the political back drop of this festival. [...]

]]> By: m http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-1024 m Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:04:21 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-1024 And of now, with the film V for Vendetta, Guy Fawkes is a symbol for righteous opposition to a corrupt government. Never be forgot indeed! And of now, with the film V for Vendetta, Guy Fawkes is a symbol for righteous opposition to a corrupt government. Never be forgot indeed!

]]> By: Colin McNulty http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/comment-page-1/#comment-825 Colin McNulty Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:18:42 +0000 http://www.colinmcnulty.com/blog/2007/10/19/remember-remember-the-5th-of-november/#comment-825 I agree that censorship is bad, but you didn't address the key point: is that a suitable verse to teach a child of 7? I'm not saying never teach it and strike it from history, but at what age do you choose to unfetter truth? I agree that censorship is bad, but you didn’t address the key point: is that a suitable verse to teach a child of 7? I’m not saying never teach it and strike it from history, but at what age do you choose to unfetter truth?

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